Did the gods really exist?

First topic message reminder :

This question always used to haunt me since I had involved in various rituals and religious chores.
Sometimes I felt that all the theologies were the offsprings of the saints or great philosophers of times and ages. But sometimes I had a deep belief of their real existence. So what do u people really think of this troubling question?

why is this thread dead in light of such an important topic?
Well, lets change the course of our discussion. I ask you this. do y'all have a reasoning basis to believe in existence of god?? or is it just faith and fear?
What arguments would you provide if you were to argue for the existence of god? please jot down in here.

I could say:
1)Everything is borne out of something else.Like i am borne out of my parents, my parents were borne out of my grandparents , this planet was borne out of cosmic events and all reality is borne out of the bigbang.So There is such an entity that gave birth to the first cause and that entity is god.And god itself gave birth to causality.

2)There is intelligence in the world and in everything we see.Things aren't random and obscure, they have an underlying sound foundation only possible due to planning of an intelligent being , thus god.

3)Such a vast universe when all its quirks and matter cannot possibly function well all on its own hadn't there been a all knowing, all powerful superviser to look through every detail of existence.Thus this omniscient, omnipotent superviser is god.

4)Every thing living has an urge to live and to keep on going.We didn't decide to go on living, we are just instinctively geared towards it. Thus this "force" is one undiluted evidence of divine intervention, thus god exists.

Please comment on the fallacies, if any, on these arguments or provide your own.

The first point is what I started this whole debate.
Thanks vandetta for wonderful inputs.

VforVendetta wrote:why is this thread dead in light of such an important topic?
Well, lets change the course of our discussion. I ask you this. do y'all have a reasoning basis to believe in existence of god?? or is it just faith and fear?
What arguments would you provide if you were to argue for the existence of god? please jot down in here.

I could say:
1)Everything is borne out of something else.Like i am borne out of my parents, my parents were borne out of my grandparents , this planet was borne out of cosmic events and all reality is borne out of the bigbang.So There is such an entity that gave birth to the first cause and that entity is god.And god itself gave birth to causality.

2)There is intelligence in the world and in everything we see.Things aren't random and obscure, they have an underlying sound foundation only possible due to planning of an intelligent being , thus god.

3)Such a vast universe when all its quirks and matter cannot possibly function well all on its own hadn't there been a all knowing, all powerful superviser to look through every detail of existence.Thus this omniscient, omnipotent superviser is god.

4)Every thing living has an urge to live and to keep on going.We didn't decide to go on living, we are just instinctively geared towards it. Thus this "force" is one undiluted evidence of divine intervention, thus god exists.

Please comment on the fallacies, if any, on these arguments or provide your own.

well,
For your first point " If everything comes from something then Where did the so called GOD came from then? And I wouldn't be convinced if you say GOD is an exception. Even if god existed there always then my question would be then when did he thought he should be there always?"

For your second point "There is intelligence in this world because we think there is. Since we haven't seen any other worlds how can we possibly be sure that there is intelligence in the world. It is just that we understand our world to be intelligent and that's why people perceive god as themselves. The world is just the way it is and we think it is intelligent."

For your third point "Same as in point two , we find the universe vast because we view from our perception. The perception of a phuchhe human beings who are just a tiny part of this universe. We find it complicated because it's a vast system and we are just a part of it. Comic forces is making it happen and we know that if there's is (likely to be in future) even a small imbalance , the universe might collapse. so where does the god come here?"

Fourth point "I object to your use of the word divine intervention, we are debating bout the divinity itself, so I find your argument invalid"

eveningpolestar wrote:
For your second point "There is intelligence in this world because we think there is. Since we haven't seen any other worlds how can we possibly be sure that there is intelligence in the world. It is just that we understand our world to be intelligent and that's why people perceive god as themselves. The world is just the way it is and we think it is intelligent."

How can oak trees give rise to apples ?, weed give rise to grapes?, Well, they can't Because oak trees donot have what it takes to be an apple, neither does weed.Apple trees give rise to apples, because apple trees are intelligent enough(or even more) to host apples.By similar assertion, how can the universe, supposedly dull and meaningless give rise to such a thing as intelligence, as human intelligence.Would it not be natural to conclude that the universe could itself be intelligent so as to give birth to humans?

Fourth point "I object to your use of the word divine intervention, we are debating bout the divinity itself, so I find your argument invalid"

By "divine intervention" i meant the inexplicable nature of existence itself.Consider this, why does anything exist? Would it not be easier not to exist at all ?Who is more relaxed, the one who is awake or the one who is asleep?Why keep on existing and face all the tension and face the vacillating nature of pain and pleasure? when you can just seep into the bliss of nothingness,neither pain nor pleasure.or as in Agent Smith's words:
"Why, Mr. Anderson? Why, why, why? Why do you do it? Why, why get up? Why keep fighting? Do you believe you're fighting for something, for more than your survival? Can you tell me what it is, do you even know? Is it freedom, or truth, perhaps peace, could it be for love? Illusions, Mr. Anderson, vagaries of perception. Temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without any meaning or purpose! And all of them as artificial as the Matrix itself. Although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as love. You must be able to see it Mr. Anderson, you must know it by now. You can't win, it's pointless to keep fighting! Why, Mr. Anderson, why? Why do you persist?"

This question of why existence exists is as demanding as the question of god itself.It's almost as if someone, somewhere , somehow got bored and created universe to kid with himself.

V. i dont really care for your points , but thumbs up for quoting the matrix.

To those who says: " I don't believe in god just because I have not seen them" to them I want to say, god travel approx 300,000 kilometers per second. As we know, light is a particle but we cannot see it. similarly we cannot see the god.

As you know that light can travel through transparent object, X- ray can travel through human flesh, similarly god can travel through any solid object. so god can entered from closed door as well.

So, I think there is some un-explored power who created everything including the most complex human body and I have named that power as a god. Any way I am not sure, kirshna, shiva, allah, jegous are that un-explored power or not.

Hey same thing with devil as well

Saurav wrote:To those who says: " I don't believe in god just because I have not seen them" to them I want to say, god travel approx 300,000 kilometers per second. As we know, light is a particle but we cannot see it. similarly we cannot see the god.

As you know that light can travel through transparent object, X- ray can travel through human flesh, similarly god can travel through any solid object. so god can entered from closed door as well.

So, I think there is some un-explored power who created everything including the most complex human body and I have named that power as a god. Any way I am not sure, kirshna, shiva, allah, jegous are that un-explored power or not.

God travels 300000 km per sec........god can enter from closed doors as well

These are just assumptions...do you have any facts to prove these statements???

I mean to those who says " I don't believe in god just because I have not seen them". As I believe in god and as I have not seen it ------ yes I have assumed that------ and if researched in depth we can get facts as well.

Saurav wrote:I mean to those who says " I don't believe in god just because I have not seen them". As I believe in god and as I have not seen it ------ yes I have assumed that------ and if researched in depth we can get facts as well.

In my view enough research has already been done and there was no trace of god...

eveningpolestar wrote:In my view enough research has already been done and there was no trace of god...

what do you mean by that? "no trace of god" what kind of "research" has been done to exclusively search for god?? first of all what do you really mean by the word God?

god means different things to different people.For example, for the pagans, nature is god, for some, the sun is the god, for the star trek fans, the FORCE is the god, anyways, no matter what the definition , how can anybody conduct a so-called "research" to find god when the defintion itself is so hazy and gullible?

VforVendetta wrote:

eveningpolestar wrote:In my view enough research has already been done and there was no trace of god...

what do you mean by that? "no trace of god" what kind of "research" has been done to exclusively search for god?? first of all what do you really mean by the word God?

god means different things to different people.For example, for the pagans, nature is god, for some, the sun is the god, for the star trek fans, the FORCE is the god, anyways, no matter what the definition , how can anybody conduct a so-called "research" to find god when the defintion itself is so hazy and gullible?

Come on...I was referring to the researches that were done to verify the contents of Bible , Koran and other religious texts...Did you know that scientists found that Bible had been plagiarized from the ancient texts of Mesopotamian? Similarly various scientific researches to find if anything can travel faster than the speed of light had negative conclusions. So I guess by god i mean the conventional meaning of god (ie god as almighty power).

"God means different things to different people." The statement itself proves that god doesn't exist because god is simply a concept. A concept perceived by different people differently. God is a concept formed by people to cover the insecurities they feel when set against the vastness of the universe.

Hey frens - I believe in me, life and nature. There are the things I can see, feel touch and live. I think it is a little pointless putting faith into things which aren't completely tangible.

God is a theoretical entity that is postulated by theists to explain various phenomena, such as the origin of the universe, the design of the universe, and the origin of living things. Modern science, however, can explain all of these phenomena without postulating the existence of God. By demonstrating that God is not needed to explain anything, science has proven that there is no more reason to believe in the existence of God than to believe in the existence of phlogiston.
Moreover, God was created by man - someone that could drive fear into people. Another way to make some money... Not bad they have made BILLIONS - but the truth is that everybody believes in something - even if it’s something that nobody else believes in.

Eveningpolestar, keep up the open mind. There are so many closed minds out there that it is great to hear someone thinking for themselves. All our ideas should be open to debate. We don't need to 'respect' an ideas that god really exist.It is very difficult to change one's mind to a positive outlook when you have been raised to be negative.

VforVendetta wrote:

eveningpolestar wrote:In my view enough research has already been done and there was no trace of god...

what do you mean by that? "no trace of god" what kind of "research" has been done to exclusively search for god?? first of all what do you really mean by the word God?

god means different things to different people.For example, for the pagans, nature is god, for some, the sun is the god, for the star trek fans, the FORCE is the god, anyways, no matter what the definition , how can anybody conduct a so-called "research" to find god when the defintion itself is so hazy and gullible?

hey V..looks like i found something about the research.. check this topic in our library section

http://thenepalesedebate.forumotion.com/the-library-f14/books-for-and-against-god-collection-t295.htm#2408

well, as i said before god means different things to different people, and applies to us as well.
By god i wasn't necessarily referring to a christian god, or a hindu or allah or any particular icon.And am not definitely with the idea of the supreme old guy watching from the sky. I was however trying to get beyond the dualistic idea of god may be.Much of the discussion right now is focused primarily on a god as a being , a kind of a ruler that looks upon the universe like does a king upon his country and his countrymen. This is entirely a human conception, no doubt there, however my question is can you imagine god in some other way? not simply as a controller, simply as a subject or an object,, well i don't even have a word for it.